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Upcoming Bitcoin Hard Fork & /r/bitcoin censorship

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  • IvanB

    "If 90% of /r/Bitcoin users find these policies to be intolerable, then I want these 90% of /r/Bitcoin users to leave." -Theymos

    It's consistent with the way he acts, but wow...hard to believe that we have 'leadership' like that in the Bitcoin community. Keep it up Theymos - you might actually push more people to run to XT and a different way of thinking than if you had just allowed discussions to take place.

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  • Cryptonaut

    @ivanb "If 90% of /r/Bitcoin users find these policies to be intolerable, then I want these 90% of /r/Bitcoin users to leave." -Theymos

    It's consistent with the way he acts, but wow...hard to believe that we have 'leadership' like that in the Bitcoin community. Keep it up Theymos - you might actually push more people to run to XT and a different way of thinking than if you had just allowed discussions to take place.

    Yeah, I think his time is coming to an end finally. You can see the subreddit subscribers slowly dropping down lol.

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  • OmniEdge

    @cryptonaut

    @ivanb "If 90% of /r/Bitcoin users find these policies to be intolerable, then I want these 90% of /r/Bitcoin users to leave." -Theymos

    It's consistent with the way he acts, but wow...hard to believe that we have 'leadership' like that in the Bitcoin community. Keep it up Theymos - you might actually push more people to run to XT and a different way of thinking than if you had just allowed discussions to take place.

    Yeah, I think his time is coming to an end finally. You can see the subreddit subscribers slowly dropping down lol.

    Technically, Theymos might have point. It is a Bitcoin subreddit after all. BitcoinXT does not belong there. Same is valid for Ethereum and all other altcoins. if you create a fork that uses the same original codebase but diverges in another direction that competes with the original project, even if legally speaking the license doesn't require you to do that, ethically speaking you should change the name of the software. In this case BitcoinXT should not create spam in a Bitcoin subreddit. Worst case scenario, we should respect and protect the minority from the majority with basic rules.

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  • IvanB

    @omniedge

    @cryptonaut

    @ivanb "If 90% of /r/Bitcoin users find these policies to be intolerable, then I want these 90% of /r/Bitcoin users to leave." -Theymos

    It's consistent with the way he acts, but wow...hard to believe that we have 'leadership' like that in the Bitcoin community. Keep it up Theymos - you might actually push more people to run to XT and a different way of thinking than if you had just allowed discussions to take place.

    Yeah, I think his time is coming to an end finally. You can see the subreddit subscribers slowly dropping down lol.

    Technically, Theymos might have point. It is a Bitcoin subreddit after all. BitcoinXT does not belong there. Same is valid for Ethereum and all other altcoins. if you create a fork that uses the same original codebase but diverges in another direction that competes with the original project, even if legally speaking the license doesn't require you to do that, ethically speaking you should change the name of the software. In this case BitcoinXT should not create spam in a Bitcoin subreddit. Worst case scenario, we should respect and protect the minority from the majority with basic rules.

    I hit unsubscribe right after reading this. There is NO excuse for censoring something that most of the community feels is worth discussing for it's impact on Bitcoin. It's r/bitcoin, not r/Theymos'sViewOnWhatBitcoinShouldBe.

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  • adam

    @cryptonaut

    @ivanb "If 90% of /r/Bitcoin users find these policies to be intolerable, then I want these 90% of /r/Bitcoin users to leave." -Theymos

    It's consistent with the way he acts, but wow...hard to believe that we have 'leadership' like that in the Bitcoin community. Keep it up Theymos - you might actually push more people to run to XT and a different way of thinking than if you had just allowed discussions to take place.

    Yeah, I think his time is coming to an end finally. You can see the subreddit subscribers slowly dropping down lol.

    I don't suppose many people remember but Theymos actually didnt start r/bitcoin, it was a 17 year old libertarian who called himself Atlas and who was the owner of r/bitcoin through its first 10,000 or so subs. He was fiercely libertarian, liked to play devils advocate and debate abstract concepts. One day he got really discouraged after being trolled a bunch of time and felt that he no longer deserved to be the "owner" of the community, and so gave it to the more responsible Theymos.

    Not trying to say anything with this, just noting the wheel continuing to turn.

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  • frankenmint

    @cryptonaut

    @ivanb "If 90% of /r/Bitcoin users find these policies to be intolerable, then I want these 90% of /r/Bitcoin users to leave." -Theymos

    It's consistent with the way he acts, but wow...hard to believe that we have 'leadership' like that in the Bitcoin community. Keep it up Theymos - you might actually push more people to run to XT and a different way of thinking than if you had just allowed discussions to take place.

    Yeah, I think his time is coming to an end finally. You can see the subreddit subscribers slowly dropping down lol.

    Calling BS there. Literally 1K members unsubscribed of over 172K...the number is already recovering back to where it was before people left which means that a lot of people were bluffing. In other news, it IS good to see XT attempting to push the 500 nodes barrier: https://getaddr.bitnodes.io/nodes/?q=/Bitcoin%20XT:0.11.0/

    Also, look at the reactions from bitcointalk - many of the users there are on the other side of the fence as those of reddit users...also a few people in my own local group of in person contacts agree for increased blocks but not through XT.

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  • pooktwo

    @adam

    @cryptonaut

    @ivanb "If 90% of /r/Bitcoin users find these policies to be intolerable, then I want these 90% of /r/Bitcoin users to leave." -Theymos

    It's consistent with the way he acts, but wow...hard to believe that we have 'leadership' like that in the Bitcoin community. Keep it up Theymos - you might actually push more people to run to XT and a different way of thinking than if you had just allowed discussions to take place.

    Yeah, I think his time is coming to an end finally. You can see the subreddit subscribers slowly dropping down lol.

    I don't suppose many people remember but Theymos actually didnt start r/bitcoin, it was a 17 year old libertarian who called himself Atlas and who was the owner of r/bitcoin through its first 10,000 or so subs. He was fiercely libertarian, liked to play devils advocate and debate abstract concepts. One day he got really discouraged after being trolled a bunch of time and felt that he no longer deserved to be the "owner" of the community, and so gave it to the more responsible Theymos.

    Not trying to say anything with this, just noting the wheel continuing to turn.

    History does have a funny way of repeating itself, this always happens when someone gets a lot of power.

    I do kind of feel bad for the guy because which ever way he makes a decision, someone in the community is gonna be mad. But that is the burden you must take on as a leader, can't please everyone.

    But I do think it is absolutely absurd to think that XT is not part of the Bitcoin discussion. It doesn't matter if you are for or against it, I honestly can't be for one side or the other as my technical knowledge of which one is "better" is based solely on what I read, I am not a coder (I am leaning towards XT though for the record).

    But when someone calls it an altcoin that is a pure technicality, it is bitcoin, and this will effect bitcoin. Even if it does become an altcoin, it's still going to fork the Bitcoin network itself.

    • Robert Ross
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  • TatianaMoroz

    Thank you for the thoughtful explanations and answers to my questions guys. I think I have most of what's important now. Sort of ;)

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  • Cryptonaut

    @frankenmint

    @cryptonaut

    @ivanb "If 90% of /r/Bitcoin users find these policies to be intolerable, then I want these 90% of /r/Bitcoin users to leave." -Theymos

    It's consistent with the way he acts, but wow...hard to believe that we have 'leadership' like that in the Bitcoin community. Keep it up Theymos - you might actually push more people to run to XT and a different way of thinking than if you had just allowed discussions to take place.

    Yeah, I think his time is coming to an end finally. You can see the subreddit subscribers slowly dropping down lol.

    Calling BS there. Literally 1K members unsubscribed of over 172K...the number is already recovering back to where it was before people left which means that a lot of people were bluffing. In other news, it IS good to see XT attempting to push the 500 nodes barrier: https://getaddr.bitnodes.io/nodes/?q=/Bitcoin%20XT:0.11.0/

    Also, look at the reactions from bitcointalk - many of the users there are on the other side of the fence as those of reddit users...also a few people in my own local group of in person contacts agree for increased blocks but not through XT.

    eh, that is still a pretty big amount of members to actually go through with unsubscribing after just a day or 2 of drama. Either way there is definitely a split occurring in the bitcoin community, with people spreading out to a bunch of other subreddits and other forums (maybe not everyone, but enough to be noticeable). Not surprising that many on bitcointalk feel the other way though.. most people fed up with Theymos stopped frequenting bitcointalk ages ago.

    also a few people in my own local group of in person contacts agree for increased blocks but not through XT

    Maybe they can push for Core to adopt the same BIP (101), and this whole ordeal can be avoided then?

    @omniedge

    @cryptonaut

    @ivanb "If 90% of /r/Bitcoin users find these policies to be intolerable, then I want these 90% of /r/Bitcoin users to leave." -Theymos

    It's consistent with the way he acts, but wow...hard to believe that we have 'leadership' like that in the Bitcoin community. Keep it up Theymos - you might actually push more people to run to XT and a different way of thinking than if you had just allowed discussions to take place.

    Yeah, I think his time is coming to an end finally. You can see the subreddit subscribers slowly dropping down lol.

    Technically, Theymos might have point. It is a Bitcoin subreddit after all. BitcoinXT does not belong there. Same is valid for Ethereum and all other altcoins. if you create a fork that uses the same original codebase but diverges in another direction that competes with the original project, even if legally speaking the license doesn't require you to do that, ethically speaking you should change the name of the software. In this case BitcoinXT should not create spam in a Bitcoin subreddit. Worst case scenario, we should respect and protect the minority from the majority with basic rules.

    Actually, he doesn't have a point because BitcoinXT is plain and simple not an alt-coin. It's a slight variant of the Bitcoin Core reference client, which if widely adopted will introduce some protocol changes which are being widely demanded by the community. This isn't the first and only time the protocol has ever changed, so if you are going to call BitcoinXT an alt-coin then by the same logic so is Bitcoin Core, and at that point the term "alt-coin" has lost all meaning completely.

    even if legally speaking the license doesn't require you to do that

    The bitcoin network does not recognize law. The longest and strongest chain which calls itself Bitcoin is the real bitcoin, doesn't matter if the entire network consists of nodes running Bitcoin Core, BitcoinXT or BitcoinXY.

    Chief Architect - Let's Talk Bitcoin!
    Co-Founder - Tokenly
    Owner - IronClad Web Technologies
    BITCOINEX - SPECULATE - EARNFREEBTC - BOOKKEEPER - IRONCLADWEB
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  • OmniEdge

    @cryptonaut

    @frankenmint

    @cryptonaut

    @ivanb "If 90% of /r/Bitcoin users find these policies to be intolerable, then I want these 90% of /r/Bitcoin users to leave." -Theymos

    It's consistent with the way he acts, but wow...hard to believe that we have 'leadership' like that in the Bitcoin community. Keep it up Theymos - you might actually push more people to run to XT and a different way of thinking than if you had just allowed discussions to take place.

    Yeah, I think his time is coming to an end finally. You can see the subreddit subscribers slowly dropping down lol.

    Calling BS there. Literally 1K members unsubscribed of over 172K...the number is already recovering back to where it was before people left which means that a lot of people were bluffing. In other news, it IS good to see XT attempting to push the 500 nodes barrier: https://getaddr.bitnodes.io/nodes/?q=/Bitcoin%20XT:0.11.0/

    Also, look at the reactions from bitcointalk - many of the users there are on the other side of the fence as those of reddit users...also a few people in my own local group of in person contacts agree for increased blocks but not through XT.

    eh, that is still a pretty big amount of members to actually go through with unsubscribing after just a day or 2 of drama. Either way there is definitely a split occurring in the bitcoin community, with people spreading out to a bunch of other subreddits and other forums (maybe not everyone, but enough to be noticeable). Not surprising that many on bitcointalk feel the other way though.. most people fed up with Theymos stopped frequenting bitcointalk ages ago.

    also a few people in my own local group of in person contacts agree for increased blocks but not through XT

    Maybe they can push for Core to adopt the same BIP (101), and this whole ordeal can be avoided then?

    @omniedge

    @cryptonaut

    @ivanb "If 90% of /r/Bitcoin users find these policies to be intolerable, then I want these 90% of /r/Bitcoin users to leave." -Theymos

    It's consistent with the way he acts, but wow...hard to believe that we have 'leadership' like that in the Bitcoin community. Keep it up Theymos - you might actually push more people to run to XT and a different way of thinking than if you had just allowed discussions to take place.

    Yeah, I think his time is coming to an end finally. You can see the subreddit subscribers slowly dropping down lol.

    Technically, Theymos might have point. It is a Bitcoin subreddit after all. BitcoinXT does not belong there. Same is valid for Ethereum and all other altcoins. if you create a fork that uses the same original codebase but diverges in another direction that competes with the original project, even if legally speaking the license doesn't require you to do that, ethically speaking you should change the name of the software. In this case BitcoinXT should not create spam in a Bitcoin subreddit. Worst case scenario, we should respect and protect the minority from the majority with basic rules.

    Actually, he doesn't have a point because BitcoinXT is plain and simple not an alt-coin. It's a slight variant of the Bitcoin Core reference client, which if widely adopted will introduce some protocol changes which are being widely demanded by the community. This isn't the first and only time the protocol has ever changed, so if you are going to call BitcoinXT an alt-coin then by the same logic so is Bitcoin Core, and at that point the term "alt-coin" has lost all meaning completely.

    even if legally speaking the license doesn't require you to do that

    The bitcoin network does not recognize law. The longest and strongest chain which calls itself Bitcoin is the real bitcoin, doesn't matter if the entire network consists of nodes running Bitcoin Core, BitcoinXT or BitcoinXY.

    BitcoinXT is a fork which i doubt is widely demanded by the community. Even if it is it might arguably not make it better. A fork happens when developers take a copy of source code from one software package and start independent development on it, creating a distinct and separate piece of software. The term often implies not merely a development branch, but a split in the developer community, a form of schism. This fork is dividing Bitcoin-core into 2 camps while there is, currently, no issue . A BIP would be more appropriate. Why doesn't the XT camp promote a BIP? Divide and conquer seems to be on the menu at the moment.

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