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John Carvalho the CCO of Bitrefill joins CK and David to discuss his experiences building on Lightning. John dispels common misconceptions about Lightning and discusses where he thinks the technology can go. The interview turned spicy at the end when John confronted David about the issues he sees in DeFi and MakerDAO in general. We cover the following topics.

• How Bitrefill is offering Bitcoin Lightning Services
• The current state of the Lightning Network
• Addressing concerns about the Lightning Network
• John's bullish case for the Lightning Network
• John’s concerns over applications that depend on oracles
• Debating the merits of MakerDAO.

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