E59 – Bitcoin’s Center of Gravity

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Shownotes for Episode 59 – The Bitcoin Center of Gravity

Bitfunder is dead, long live… Oh wait, there’s nothing replacing Bitfunder. I’m joined by Andreas and Stephanie to talk about the early demise of the budding Bitcoin Unlicensed Securities market, the reach of the SEC, the upcoming congressional hearings and Bitcoin’s new center of gravity.

Then, Protoshares is a new altcoin from invictus innovations claiming to be a crypto-ETF on everything produced by the Virginia based company. After launching last week, things quickly went exponential and more than 3 months worth of blocks were mined in less than a week. Daniel Larimer rejoins us at the end of today show for a quick post-mortem on what happened, what went wrong, and if anything about their plan has changed in light of recent changes.

But first, we’re talking Bitcoin and Startups in the silicon valley with Scott Robinson, let’s not keep him waiting – Enjoy the show!

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By Adam B. Levine
Adam B. Levine

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  • GREE:D

    protoshares is a joke. My money is in MasterCoin.

  • http://biohackyourself.com/ Winslow Strong

    You all seem to still be convinced that the US has no direct ability to affect bitcoin usage outside of the US, other than perhaps as a regulatory “advisor.” Please read this, and comment: http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/01/business/in-treasurys-war-missiles-for-a-financial-battlefield.html

  • ProtoPTSD

    I don’t know whether I support mastercoin. But I sure do NOT support protoshares anymore after how Daniel handled it.

  • ProtoPTSD

    You didn’t even ask Daniel to respond about why they pushed the genesis block hours prior to the announced launch time. I would have loved to have heard his response to these points: http://letstalkbitcoin.com/e57-protoshares-selfish-mining/#comment-1117176121

    As someone who was there at the beginning of protoshares, I now know better than to trust Daniel or his statements at face value and can parse what he says to pick out the B.S. from his responses. He answers are propagandistic, not honest, regarding what happened because he wants to keep talking up PTS. And Adam, you really didn’t push for honest answers here and you entirely skipped the one question (pushing the genesis block early) for which he would have absolutely no good pre-written excuse because it clearly shows his true intentions &/or incompetence. There is no way around that one. You risk damaging LetsTalkBitcoin’s credibility by going so easy on someone like Daniel who screwed up big time just because he is a friend or contributing writer to Lets Talk Bitcoin.

    I want to come here to hear the honest truth and accountability, not this, not a platform for people like Daniel to share propaganda for a coin that messed up big time.

  • Let’s Talk Bitcoin!

    Frankly how Daniel handled it doesn’t matter that much to me, my personal (Adam) interest in Protoshare is it’s a cryptocurrency whose value does not depend on the fundamentals of the currency, rather the behavior of the company backing it. If Invictus fails, Protoshares will fail. If Invictus succeeds, protoshares will succeed.

    It borrows the infrastructure of Bitcoin but you’re speculating on a company rather than the reach and purchasing power of the combined network.
    What questions do you want answered? The genesis block objection was a non-starter for me after I found out Invictus didnt recieve their mining equiptment until a week after the coin launched. If they had launched early to benefit themselves they would have needed to be ready to bring mining power to bear and my understanding is they bought more coins than they mined.

    I understand the temptation is to assume maliciousness, but I’ve been watching this one closely and I just don’t see it. Mistakes? Yes, lots of those. Even lots that could have been avoided, but the core innovation is creating a cryptocurrency that trades against whether they deliver as a company, and that’s just as true with them making mistakes as it is if they’re getting it right.

    Frankly it’s amazing how successful they’ve been given the mistakes, imagine when a company comes along and takes the model without the first-time mistakes – I really think cryptocurrency mined into existence and backed by private companies are the missing link in altcoins. It means Bitcoin is cryptocurrency that is “only good” at being money, whereas the next generation coins will be smaller cap, do the money part but mostly rely on Bitcoin and be personalized to the company issuing them.

    So with that in mind as my basis for looking at Invictus, you’ll find my perspective is one of cautious optimism, muted excitement and chagrin. Whether they do a good or bad job, we’re learning something valuable about this new kind of cryptocurrency and we need more companies following either path at this early date.

    Seriously though, if there are questions you want answered please post them or email me

  • ProtoPTSD

    You say… “Frankly how Daniel handled it doesn’t matter that much to me, my personal (Adam) interest in Protoshare is it’s a cryptocurrency whose value does not depend on the fundamentals of the currency, rather the behavior of the company backing it.”

    – “…the behavior of the company backing it.” Exactly. And this is exactly why you need to be asking the question regarding the company’s behavior such as why the genesis block was pushed early. Daniel is the founder of Invictus Innovations, he actions are representative of his company. Whether it was he or someone else within Invictus Innovations that pushed the genesis block early (ignoring all their other mistakes for the moment), doesn’t matter…it was Invictus responsible for that. That does matter. Their actions and how they handling the chain matters. They are part and parcel one in the same. Daniel’s actions do matter and are part of the actions of Invictus. For the love of God, do you not see your sophistry here?

    “What questions do you want answered? The genesis block objection was a non-starter for me after I found out Invictus didnt recieve their mining equiptment until a week after the coin launched. If they had launched early to benefit themselves they would have needed to be ready to bring mining power to bear and my understanding is they bought more coins than they mined.”

    – That’s really naive. He had 100 cloud instances on Digital Ocean as he mentioned on the forums. And you think it matters in the least that he had a few physical machines that didn’t yet arrive? But your point entirely misses the mark anyway. Pushing the genesis block early is not something you can hand wave away, you know how absolutely critical the genesis block is to an on time and fair launch and pushing it prior to the announced time reflects deeply upon their capability and/or intentions. ***You are supposed to be a journalist. Ask the question.*** Why is that so hard to understand? We need to know hear from him why this blunder happened.

    Adam, You are losing credibility in my eyes at an astounding rate because you are not even willing to ask what I’m certain you know is a critical question. Man up and ask the tough questions too. How do I or other listeners know you aren’t asking the tough questions of other people when I know for a fact that you aren’t asking them here when it’s about a topic about which I happen to be well informed. I want to be able to trust you and your podcasts. Up until this point I have. To do that, you have to ask the hard-to-ask but important questions.

    FYI, I hold x,xxx PTS. So it’s not the lack of them that I care about. It’s understanding Daniel’s and Invictus’ intentions, capability, and responsibility that I care about. Because if they are not the team to execute than that does change my investment strategy and the outlook for all Invictus products.

  • Let’s Talk Bitcoin!

    I call them like I see them, people are flawed and make mistakes. I asked the questions that I asked, the next time we have Daniel on I’m happy to ask any others you’d like.

    I recognize that you do, but I do not think the Genesis block launching an hour early is very important, I think the other problems that occurred (like the difficulty being way too low, the difficulty not resetting every week as planned but rather every two weeks, the hard fork announced 2 hours prior (announced and launched while I slept).

    The guy who mined the second block (super3) was someone I met in Georgia at the conference, not affiliated with Invictus… But he mined the second block. How is that possible if Invictus launched early for nefarious reasons?

    To your other points, I think my library of work speaks for itself. If you don’t find me credible, you are free to get your news and commentary elsewhere. Let’s Talk Bitcoin like all good things is opt-in.